Mario Carrozzo:

Welcome back to Inside Caridon, Landlord and Property Talk. I'm Mario, the CEO and founder of Caridon. For those of you that don't know us, we are a property housing group. We specialise in providing housing for vulnerable people across the UK. We currently have a portfolio and assets under management of around £300 million, a portfolio of around 2,000 properties within the M25, and a strong presence in South London. We've been going for over two decades. Property has been in my blood. I was 11 when I went to my first auction.

The market as it is today, I think a lot of people are working closely with organisations like ourselves, specifically because of the Renters Rights changes in legislation. Part of our business is guaranteeing rents. As well as developments and investments, we guarantee multi-million pounds to landlords every year, and we've been doing that for over 15 years.

Part of the podcast today is looking at the market and how a traditional estate agency works, because we have an element of an estate agency in our business: we have Caridon Estates. We've been looking at the business for the last year or so at things like the costs of running the estate agency and whether there were other alternatives. We've been fortunate enough to have an amazing guest today. We're joined by James Hughes, who was recently named agent of the year 2025. Welcome, James.

James Hughes:

Thank you very much, thank you for having me on.

Mario Carrozzo:

Going back to the agency, we were looking at average monthly costs: different CRMs, advertising, floor plans, the typical Rightmove and all the other portals you have running in the estate agency. I think it costs around nearly £4,000 a month, which is a lot of money. Maybe you can give us an example of why the typical estate agency model is breaking down.

James Hughes:

I think it's worth noting, as you said, agency is changing and it's changing at a very quick rate. Back in the day you had your corporate agents or you might create your own independent agency, but by wanting to do that, there are very big costs. If you do not have a management book, in reality, you have nothing to sell. So all these agency owners have a big revenue, but normally their outgoings are just as high as their revenue.

Purple Bricks, for their praises or sins, started this self-employed awareness seven to ten years ago. Now you've got a lot of self-employed offerings. The consumer, the client, now does not need that corporate agent. The client now appreciates the personal independent agent. The way customers perceive agency is changing. They now appreciate an independent agent.

This also means that all these branch managers in the corporate agencies now have another option where they can own their business, own their data, work on their own terms, and get all the fee that they deserve. I think this year we're going to see this self-employed movement only continue. Now we have agencies, just like what you were about to experience, that are aware they can partner with a self-employed offering to reduce their costs, make more profit, and with eXp, build equity and revenue share as well, all while maintaining their brand.

This year in London, I think the past two or three years has been the early adoption stage, but now a lot more people are aware of the self-employed option and it feels like it's going to hit the mass market stage. So 2026, a lot more agents and agencies are going to be adopting a self-employed option. When I worked at CBRE, they now offer a self-employed option for their brokers. A lot of agencies are going to be adopting this self-employed brokerage role under their current brand. 2026, we're only going to see it going one way.

Mario Carrozzo:

Amazing. So for the listeners that don't know much about eXp, can you give us a bit more background on what eXp actually is?

James Hughes:

In short, it is a global real estate brokerage. It gives agents a platform to operate as an independent agent. Founded in America in 2009, then went to Canada. The UK was the third country, six years ago. Within that time, we're now in 30 countries: Italy, Spain, India, Dubai. They want to be in 50 countries by 2030.

eXp UK now has 850 active agents. They will get to 10,000 eventually, because everyone is now aware of it. Four years ago, eXp UK was 140th on Rightmove. We're now number one. eXp UK is the UK's biggest agency for Rightmove listings. This is not some American gimmick. Factually, this is the UK's biggest agency, and a lot more people are aware of it.

If you want to create your own agency, as you said, it's minimum £4,000 a month and your costs go up. With eXp, we pay a monthly membership of £125 plus £380. For that, you're given the entire business in a box: CRM, emails, access to the portals, Rightmove, Zoopla, On the Market, and AML. So we have that business in a box to operate as independent agents. And then on completion, eXp takes a fee on a pay-as-you-go basis. It allows agents like me, who didn't want massive overheads each month, a way to be an independent agent. Our accountants will tell you: when you understand the profit margins involved here, we normally operate at about an 80% profit margin because eXp takes their costs prior on completion.

Mario Carrozzo:

Can you give us an example of the commission splits?

James Hughes:

Very simple. If you sell a house at a million pounds at 1%, that's a £10,000 fee. The corporate agent would typically get about 10%: £1,000. The eXp agent gets 70%: £7,000. And eXp takes 30%, i.e. £3,000. They only take that on completion.

And then within your eXp year, once you do £80,000 of revenue, sales or lettings combined, that is called capping. After that, the agent retains 100% of the commission until the year resets, and then it goes back to 70/30. When you really understand the importance of the splits and the cap, eXp offer the best deal in the industry for agents.

Mario Carrozzo:

So financially it's a no-brainer. It makes sense why people are shifting towards a self-employment route. But how do you feel the experience is for sellers and landlords?

James Hughes:

Prior to the self-employed option, as a corporate agent and branch manager, I would go out to win the listing. I'd typically price high to win it. But after meeting that client, I normally wouldn't deal with them directly. As a branch manager, you're dealing with a lot of instructions, HR issues, training. Normally it's the younger people in the office doing the viewings. With respect to younger agents who are driven and hungry, a lot of the time the people doing the viewings may not be as experienced as a branch manager of 15 years.

Now that I'm independent, the client deals with me from start to finish. I'm here to have honest conversations about presentation. If a property needs to be staged or painted, I give honest advice, and then we discuss the price strategy. I'm on all the portals: Rightmove, Zoopla, On the Market. I do everything I can to get a buyer to your door.

The most important thing when that buyer turns up is that it's me handling them. An agent of 15 years, very experienced, very passionate, very knowledgeable. Who do you trust to handle your asset: myself, running my business, my brand, my reputation, or a corporate agent where it's the younger team doing the viewings?

We don't get a salary. I'm not here for market share. Most corporate agents sell 25% of their listings and see that as a success, which means 75% goes unsold. My sale rate is about 90% because I give the correct advice, then work hard to get it sold. And it's not just selling it. It's getting it over the line: down valuations from surveys, fighting for your client every step of the way to maintain my reputation and get referrals.

Mario Carrozzo:

I see that. I think there's a key point too: motivation to sell. If I put my property up for sale with a typical estate agent, I'm relying on a negotiator who is, in fairness, making a small part of that commission. Their motivation may be very different from someone making the lion's share of the commission and working for themselves. You're going to have the best chance of selling the property because you're motivated. You're working for yourself. It's definitely a win-win.

James Hughes:

The fee shouldn't be the only reason you want to get it sold, but as salespeople, it is a big factor. If that £10,000 fee comes to you at 100%, you are going to work so much harder than a corporate agent who gets 10% of £10,000: £1,000. As salespeople, that is a big factor.

Mario Carrozzo:

We're also going to be looking at property abroad. We have a presence in the USA, in Italy. Maybe explain a little about eXp's global reach.

James Hughes:

We're now in 30 countries. Our back office means we can reach out to any agent at the click of a button. If I want to reach out to my Italian partner agents, I can do so instantly. And bearing in mind that most agents at eXp are senior people and entrepreneurs, we're here to collaborate because we also get equity in this global NASDAQ business. We are all equity partners. I want you to be successful. I want my Italian agents to be successful.

I was at an event the other day and heard someone saying he's struggling to sell his flats in Barcelona. I said, I've got a partner agent in Barcelona. I reached out to the internal chats, found a guy called David, and referred that client to him. That client has seven apartments, and we've signed an agreement via the eXp back office that on completion, I'll receive my agreed split. It's all processed via eXp. The accounts team pay me and David on completion.

We have another agent from a different international brokerage who is scared to pass his leads to agents in Spain because he doesn't trust them or the brokerage. With eXp, there is trust and everything is signed via agreement. Equally, I get leads back. I was passed three leads in Kensington from a Dubai eXp agent. I attend the shows and conferences, we sign agreements, and I now sell globally. A friend who lives in Rio, Brazil, wants me to be his managing agent to oversee his apartments there, so I'm reaching out to the Brazilian eXp agent. With eXp, you can sell where you live, but if you think bigger and globally, and that's obviously one of the attractions with Caridon given that you're not just UK-focused, you can now utilise the eXp framework to reach out to the correct agents and partners to service any clients around the world where eXp operates.

Mario Carrozzo:

So in essence, you've got a wider reach which you would never have as an agent working in an independent agency. You've got the platform, wider reach, and the approach is more collaborative. Typically agencies compete with each other. This is collaboration. Hence why people across the world want to work with you to sell their property.

James Hughes:

Yes, and that's in London, that's in the UK. I can now refer clients to partner agents within London, within the UK, and internationally. Any referral I give or receive is my brand and my reputation on the line, so I want to find a good partner agent. You can research them, stay involved in the conversation, and on completion, we get paid via eXp. It's all done via the eXp ecosystem.

And for yourself, Mario: can you explain what excited you about partnering with eXp? And we'll come on to when you're going to launch and go live as well.

Mario Carrozzo:

I was marketing a property of my own through an estate agent who used to work for Hamptons. It turned out he had moved to eXp, and he'd been with the estate agency for many years. I think 20 years. So I had physical evidence of someone I'd known for a long time who was marketing a property of mine and had made the move. I think he won an award as one of their highest sales people. That was the first point where I thought, this definitely works.

For me personally, I felt we were getting a lot of opportunities we couldn't always act on. We own almost 2,000 properties, but a lot of the stock that comes to me isn't always suitable because we're in social housing and the areas differ. But I work with thousands of developers who say, can you sell my property? And of course we couldn't. We didn't have that platform. So the first key point was having that outlet, and it's cost effective.

Secondly, I could create a team. I have a lot of young people that I mentor. We had two in the office the other day who want to get into property. They're going to come and work for us for the next year. We're building quite a large procurement and sales part of the business, but we need a platform for when developers come to me. The contact base I have: landlords, mortgage brokers, the whole network. Someone always knows someone that wants to sell a property. Being in Italy, in Dubai, in America, it's even better now because there's a platform I wouldn't have access to any other way.

James Hughes:

eXp is the platform for you to build whatever you want to do. Caridon does its own thing, but as you said, you have all of these clients that come to you that you haven't been able to service because you're not on the portals. Those clients know, like, and trust you. They want to use you, but you're not able to do it. Now you can retain those clients within Caridon, rather than passing them elsewhere.

About four years ago, eXp allowed agents like myself who had proven themselves to now create an agency. So I'm now not just an independent agent. I have my agency powered by eXp. Within the 850 UK agents, there's probably about 50, like myself, who have a team or agency. Last year, they allowed full-on agencies to join eXp. Agencies can reduce their operational costs, make profits, build equity and revenue share, and maintain their brand. You just put eXp underneath it. There were about 15 agencies that joined last year. This year we're going to see a lot more agencies joining, and when people like yourself announce this, all these other agencies will start saying, hold on, what's going on over there? I strongly urge anyone who knows you to reach out and understand why you've done this.

Your costs will only keep increasing. With eXp, we are all self-employed agents. You can build whatever you want: a team, an agency, a global revenue share group.

Mario Carrozzo:

And it's funny because people have said to me, why do you join eXp? You're successful, you've got thousands of properties. But I see this as a massive advantage to grow the business even further because we've got ambition, not just to grow the portfolio. I feel it's massive for us.

Part of our marketing strategy will be reaching out to all our landlords, developers, and so on. I think the timing is good and there's a niche for us. We guarantee rents. As a company, we've guaranteed almost half a billion pounds of rents over the last 15 years. For investors that want to buy and are worried about rent alongside the legislative changes: worried about evictions, rents, security. That's what we do. Any properties we sell, we can sell as investments and tie in the income part. I think that's a big USP for us entering the eXp market.

James Hughes:

You and Caridon have such a strong reputation. The moment you start telling your clients that you can now sell or rent their homes, you're just going to get so many more clients saying, great, we can finally use you. It's about adding this on additionally to what Caridon is already doing. It's not taking anything away. It's purely complementing, adding additional services for your clients that in turn add additional revenue streams for you and allow you to grow and scale very quickly.

We've got an agency joining whose revenue is £400,000. Amazing, well done. Their outgoings are £401,000. When can I join eXp? You could very easily do this yourself, but it doesn't make sense to go it alone, given that's the way the self-employment movement is going anyway.

Mario Carrozzo:

And if someone wants to join eXp under my team, what would the route be?

James Hughes:

Technically, an agent has to be introduced to eXp by somebody. They're called your direct partner, your sponsor. You've joined in our group. We now have 135 agents within eXp. That is more than 15% of eXp UK. We have the fastest growing group within eXp because we provide a genuine community with support and resources. We are building top-producing agents because I've been at eXp for four years and we now know exactly what to do.

So they'll have myself and obviously yourself: some of the most experienced real estate people around. We're not managers, but we're here to mentor, to lead, to collaborate, to help our agents be successful. And in partnering with you, they'll learn an enormous amount. And as you mentioned, you are so well connected. Access to developments, access to stock, access to leads. Most agents who want to go self-employed question where their leads are going to come from. Joining your team, they'll know that you've got developments left, right, and centre that you need selling around the world.

Mario Carrozzo:

For sure. On the branding side: what's the best way forward for our branding? We're launching soon and we're looking at things like boards. Do they matter?

James Hughes:

eXp is the most agent-centric model. I'm James Hughes eXp, I'm building my name. If I were to leave eXp, not that I ever will, people think I've already got my own agency. So I'm building my name. Over time, you might have Caridon eXp as your agency as it grows.

The boards: when I started four years ago, I thought, do I put my face on the board? It's an American thing. This brokerage started in America and I love celebrating success. But if you put your face on the board, people see it, people recognise it. You don't have to, but it's your name and eXp, and you can put your face on there.

Boards work. One, you get leads from them. Two, I live in South Croydon down on Normanton Road. I was selling three listings there. Clients saw my face three times on the way to their station. I apologise for that, a very horrible way to start your Monday morning. But I then get calls from clients saying, I see you everywhere, what's this eXp? That's brand awareness. It leads into social media, networking, brand referrals. The more present you can be, you're naturally going to get leads and your business builds from there.

Mario Carrozzo:

So having your own brand means that reputational risk is there. You've got to make sure you build trust, reputation, and that personal brand, over the typical office-based agency.

James Hughes:

When I worked at Foxtons when I was young, admittedly I was quite transactional: keen to get the deal done. When I went to CBRE, I was more aware of my brand and my reputation. I guess that's called growing up and maturing, even though I'm struggling with that. But now that I'm at eXp, because it's my brand, this means so much to me: the Google reviews, the touch points. We are in a service industry.

Yes, I want to get paid, but we're also dealing with people's lives, helping them move on to the next chapter. Your brand is so important, not just with your clients but within the industry. If you do anything short-sighted with your peers, you're not going to get referrals or collaboration. That comes through in social media, marketing, brand awareness. How do you brand yourself online? A third of my leads come from social media: Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. It's about you being you. People buy into you as a personal independent agent.

Mario Carrozzo:

For the estate agents out there listening and worried about the future: what's your approach when you talk to a typical estate agent about split fees and collaboration?

James Hughes:

When I was a corporate agent, we called the other agents "EA": enemy agent. They walked into the office and you wanted to see them off, because you wanted to keep the client for yourself. I understand why those corporate agents didn't want to collaborate. They were getting such a small part of the pie that they couldn't afford to share it. And their client was not receiving the best service as a result.

Now, I have a listing within eXp, I promote it within our community and our group, and I welcome other agents to bring their buyers to my door. I will very happily offer a split, as long as my client gets sold. And that's also with other independent agents. People's mindset is changing. More people are open to collaboration. 50/50, 75/25. What do we need to do to get our client's place sold? I welcome it.

Mario Carrozzo:

Where do you see this going? The likes of Purple Bricks, online platforms. In my opinion, in the next 10 to 15 years, there may not be many high street agencies left. How do you see it?

James Hughes:

eXp UK has 850 agents and it's the fastest growing real estate brokerage. They will get to 10,000 eventually. When I started four years ago, the calibre of the agents coming over was remarkable: not young people just starting out, but branch managers, directors, 20 years, 15 years of experience. This is only going one way.

I met an agent yesterday and asked him about his goals. He had amazing goals: to help his family financially, to spend more time with them. I asked him, in your current role, how close are you to hitting those goals? He said, I will never do it. As a corporate agent, I'm earning this amount no matter what I do. I showed him the figures of what agents at eXp are doing. He will be able to hit those goals by partnering with eXp, and we'll do all we can to support him.

Mario Carrozzo:

And just the market at the moment. The sentiment is a little negative after the budget. What's your snapshot?

James Hughes:

This is one of the hardest: we've experienced about 20 markets in the last two years. I've lost track of what's gone on. COVID, interest rates, world events. It's a hard market. The budget didn't help, and then we had Christmas, so there was a pause. But this is the market for independent agents to roll their sleeves up and give honest advice. People are still moving: we had a baby, sold our flat, needed a house. People are getting on with their lives.

But you have to have honest conversations about presentation and pricing. I'm going to work hard, reach out to other agents, speak to my network. If anything, this is the market for independent agents to shine. There's no pause anymore. People have to get on with their lives. As long as things are presented and priced correctly, people are inquiring. I've had a good start to the year by pricing things correctly. This is not the market to price high. Price things correctly, explain the strategy to your clients.

Mario Carrozzo:

Apart from that, we spoke a little about the Renters Reform Bill. I had a landlord on the phone today: a landlord with a portfolio he's held for 30 years who's considering selling. He's been realistic with his prices because he knows the market isn't great, but he's scared because of the legislation. Like anything, wherever there's uncertainty, there's opportunity. I think a lot of stock is going to come to the market and hopefully people are going to be more realistic, which could be a benefit for eXp and agents trying to sell this kind of stock.

James Hughes:

There was a massive opportunity if you are a good lettings agent. I'm both a sales and lettings agent. You have to be advising your clients correctly. Landlords especially are reaching out for guidance. So there's a big opportunity if you provide a fantastic service, as Caridon does: guaranteeing the rent, staying on top of compliance and the incoming legislative changes. Clients are going to come to you because they're also concerned that their current agent is not up to speed with what's coming.

Mario Carrozzo:

Who would you say should consider eXp, and who shouldn't?

James Hughes:

Look, it's not for everyone. There are some agents who want to turn up, sit behind their desk, and be comfortable. They are okay with a comfortable, okay life. But that won't change your life. We only live once. Give it a go. Reach out to people like myself or Mario. Find out why they've done it. I'm a very honest person. I've got four years of experience. I'll show you the struggles, the concerns, the numbers. Go and reach out to someone. At least do yourself the favour of having a conversation about why they are with eXp and what sort of numbers are achievable.

If it doesn't work out, you can go back and get the same job you left, but I assure you, if you work hard and follow the process, we have all the resources and tools. We know exactly what works to make our agents successful. And in partnering with Mario, they're going to have access to all the developments around South London, guaranteed leads and guaranteed listings from day one.

Mario Carrozzo:

You mentioned you work eight days a week.

James Hughes:

Nine, I think. They say go self-employed for a good work-life balance. When you run your business, you never switch off. But I absolutely love what I do. I love dealing with people. Now that I'm four years in, it's about how do you scale? We've got systems, we've got leverage in place, we're putting events on, we're doing international travel. That excites me. It's slightly frustrating for my wife who sees me thinking about it constantly.

But it just gets so exciting. You have to be prepared to work. But equally, it is your business and you can work entirely on your own terms. I choose to work very hard. That's in my nature. If you want to do one thing a month and travel the world, happy days. This is entirely your business for you to do as much or as little as you want to do. Our CEO Leo Pereja is very proud in saying eXp is a platform for you to build whatever dream you want, and that is very true.

You can do one deal a month, you can do ten deals a month. You can do sales, lettings, sell internationally, sell developments, build global revenue share groups, travel the world. It just gets more and more exciting the more you learn about it.

Mario Carrozzo:

Definitely, the work-life balance is there. I think especially after COVID, a lot of people reflected on life and there must have been a big uptake on eXp after people experienced working from home. The flexibility and scalability is what was key for us. Very interesting.

James Hughes:

I'm super excited. Given your reputation and your international reach, when you really get your head under it and see the potential, you're like, wow, I can do that. And then it just gets even more exciting.

Mario Carrozzo:

I know we haven't even scratched the surface and I know we're going to do a big launch and I'm really positive about how it's going to go.

So we haven't really spoken about my favourite word: AI. And there's an ongoing joke about replacing the Mrs. with an AI robot, but she didn't like that one. Jokes aside, we spend a lot of time working on AI solutions in our business. How do you see that working out with eXp?

James Hughes:

Luckily for us, our founder and our leaders are tech-first. A few years ago, it was social media: you have to be on social media. Now it's AI. I hope agents are not going to be replaced by AI, but we will be replaced by agents who are amazing at AI. So it's all about the touch points, the speed of response to clients. We have to be upskilling very quickly. Luckily, eXp is leading the way with what they are building. They want to give agents the most amazing systems to make sure that we can maintain being top-producing agents. It's scary, but also really exciting if you can get your head around it to allow you to provide an even better service for your clients.

Mario Carrozzo:

For the viewers out there that want to contact you, what's the best way to follow you on social media?

James Hughes:

I'm quite active on Instagram: James Hughes Property. And our group within eXp is theorg.realestate. If you Google me, James Hughes powered by eXp. Very active on social media.

Mario Carrozzo:

We might see your face on the board otherwise.

James Hughes:

Yes, yes.

Mario Carrozzo:

If you're interested in learning more about eXp, or you want to follow me on LinkedIn, or visit our Caridon website: if you want to know more about what we do as a business, if you need help with a guaranteed rent or any property help at all, we've got someone who can help you. Please make sure that you follow us on Inside Caridon on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube, wherever you are. Thanks again, James, for your time today.

James Hughes:

I'm very much looking forward to seeing you launch with eXp. Very exciting year ahead for you.

Mario Carrozzo:

Thank you.